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Well, thank you very a lot. I wish to offer you all a break for a moment and also turn to Mr. Swartz. You've been extremely patient, the 3 of you. I value that significantly. Generally, we would certainly have had 2 panels, but we really did not know just how the Senate would be running today, so in an initiative to see to it we made it through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you mention in your testament as well as your statements that the treaty with Bermuda additionally pierces financial institution secrecy and gives a system for us obtaining the details we need. There have been some common lawful support treaties which contain arrangements associated directly to sharing bank records or other monetary details.

That was an arrangement that was drafted as well as taken on in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, it's possible for feasible requesting party asking for seek information as to whether an account exists in the requested country, nation in the case of instance E.U., one of the requested member states. After that, the request, if there is an identification of an account, should be adhered to up with a common mutual legal assistance treaty.

And with respect to Bermuda, our record of participation has been really good. Our team believe that the document we have on the manufacturing of documents, consisting of financial institution documents, is such that we are positive that the stipulations consisted of in this shared lawful assistance treaty, which do call for cooperation on the manufacturing of documents, will certainly be enough to make sure that we acquire the records we require for our economic investigations and also various other investigations.

Some other MLATs additionally enable for urgent, non-written form demands to be made. It's my understanding that in Bermuda, it has to be in written type. Any kind of reason that that provision was not included in this arrangement? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, while it is real that the Mutual Lawful Support Treaty does call for requests in written type, it was the judgment of the negotiators that it was adequate that, in this situation, when it come to Bermuda, we would certainly be able to acquire prompt actions to our requests as well as likewise give such actions to Bermuda's requests, specifically since we have a practice currently developed that will certainly continue, our team believe, under the treaty of having the ability to convey those requests with email or with fax.

Senator Cardin. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda withstood that since they wished to ensure that the requests were clear and in an extra official means. Yet in the negotiations, it likewise ended up being clear that they accepted that such request can be made by fax or by email. The actual issue they were worried about was not finding a rapid methods to make a demand, yet truly simply taking dental demands off the table.

So we're positive that we've got the means in location that we can make urgent demands of them in a manner that will certainly be reliable. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I may add, as a matter of fact, while it is an advantage to be able to make oral demands, in technique, it's really rare that we do so.

Senator Cardin. Mr. Johnson, do have any remarks on the financial institution records problem? Mr. Johnson.

The difference in between being able to do a dental request or having the ability to use one of these other very quick methods, we think, is not substantial. Legislator Cardin. There've been some problems raised regarding the adequacy of Bermuda law with respect to forfeitures of profits and instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Mr. Chairman, we are. The Common Legal Aid Treaty in Post 17 does obligate Bermuda to provide aid to the United States in procedures relating to forfeiture of profits and agencies of criminal activity, to the degree permitted by the legislation of Bermuda.

We've had two examples of successful requests for restriction and also forfeiture of assets. Both instances were a success as well as we had the ability to obtain the funds. As a basic issue, assistance is available under the laws of Bermuda, as well as I do believe that is necessary to anxiety, when it come to freezing, confiscating, and limiting properties, including for matters connecting to terrorism as well as terrorism financing.

It should be kept in mind that loss aid is not limited to what is allowed under Bermuda's domestic law. When it come to an U.S. order, Bermuda can not forfeit a certain instrumentality of nondrug offenses, since that power doesn't exist domestically. Again, that's limited to instrumentalities in nondrug violation instances.

Legislator Cardin. In the Bermuda agreement, there's an arrangement that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can refute participation in capital situations.

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Are we prevented as an outcome of that or exists a method which we are able to coordinate under this treaty, also in those instances? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we think and also we hope we still would certainly have the ability to comply. Bermuda suggested, and also has actually encouraged the United States, that it books the right to deny assistance in funding cases where the sentence includes a feasible execution, depending on the-- in contrast to the essential public law arrangement of Write-up 3 of the convention.

Actually, we have that experience with other countries that have actually placed comparable interpretations on the mutual lawful help responsibilities, as well as we have actually had the ability to exercise setups in a variety of situations that permit us to acquire proof or go over whether the proof is significant sufficient to move forward with some kind of additional steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I can simply include in that, among the factors this treaty took as long it did to work out and end is because it was vital to us to see to it that there had not been a specific restriction on support in resources instances in the treaty itself.

Swartz pertaining to you. As well as that method we assume that helps keep the concept that's vital to us, that such collaboration must be readily available, irrespective of the type of situation. And also we think this has likewise substantiated with a few other countries, where despite having comparable concerns concerning collaboration in resources situations, they have, for example, been able to offer support to the nonpenalty phase of a test or one more event investigation.

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Senator Cardin. Yet they do hold the right under this treaty to deny cooperation where the United States criminal justice system is looking for death sentence? Mr. Johnson. Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not supply help in instances that contrast public plan or their essential passions, as well as they have told us that they interpret that to enable them, in death fine cases, to exercise that.

I just wanted to make it clear that they would not be an infraction of the treaty. We comprehend their analysis, that if there was a situation pending here that we needed their aid, where, clearly, the district attorneys were looking for the death penalty, Bermuda can decide not to cooperate under this treaty.

Swartz. If I might say, Mr. Chairman, significantly, the treaty would require, since this would be a denial under Article 3 of the treaty, that first there needed to be consultations with the United States, before that rejection might move forward. And I think that's a vital element of the arrangement that Mr.

Instead of having a specific arrangement, this is among a collection of problems under which support may be denied after consultation, and, among other things, that there have to be factor to consider as to whether assistance can be provided, based on such problems as the requested nation regards essential. And also our experience because respect has been that we usually can find ideal guarantees to enable evidence to be generated, at the very least for preliminary analysis of the significance of proof in the case on the whole.

As well as I believe that would certainly be practical for us to have that information in this board. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest work right here, given that this agreement was formerly authorized by this board. As I claimed in my opening, we approved it as well late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any substantial adjustments in our investment connection with Rwanda because last November when you offered testimony on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have seen considering that last November is an increase in United States investment in Rwanda, and I can provide you a few instances.

Additionally, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is mosting likely to open up a major resort in Kigali. As well as, likewise, Marriott Hotels is going in to help with the country's growing friendliness sector. I would certainly say that, given this pattern of raised financial investment, that it is crucial that the securities be afforded for them.

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You likewise discussed the reality that the United States is exploring various other reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. I think we have 5 current reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us other countries that the United States has shown interest in negotiating treaties?



I believe that completes the questioning. We may have some additional inquiries for the record. As you understand, the record remains open for 24-hour, so you obtain a break. That's a pretty quick turnaround time for this committee. I do value your persistence with the committee and also thank you really much for your testimony today.

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As set out below, we would such as to supply upgraded information on reported U.S. financial investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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And also I assume that would be helpful for us to have that info in this committee. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient job right here, since this contract was formerly authorized by this board. As I said in my opening, we approved it as well late in the 111th Congress for activity.

Have there been any type of considerable adjustments in our financial investment partnership with Rwanda since last November when you offered testimony on this treaty? What we have actually seen given that last November is a rise in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and also I can give you a few examples.

Likewise, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major resort in Kigali. And, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to help with the country's expanding friendliness industry. I would certainly state that, given this pattern of increased financial investment, that it is essential that the securities be managed for them.

investors. Senator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thanks for that. You also stated the reality that the United States is discovering other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I think you mentioned one various other nation. I believe we have 5 current bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us other nations that the United States has revealed passion in negotiating treaties? Ms.

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Senator Cardin. Thank you. I have actually been told by the team that I ought to ask the question of whether the administration still sustains the Us senate ratification of the Rwanda treaty, given that it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Senator Cardin.

I assume that finishes the examining. I do value your patience with the board as well as thank you really much for your testimony today.

Response. As laid out listed below, we wish to offer upgraded details on reported UNITED STATE financial investment task in Rwanda. Aside from these updates, the solutions provided by the Department's witness in the 111th Congress continue to be accurate. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign direct financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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