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Published Oct 09, 21
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Well, thanks extremely much. I intend to give you all a break for a minute and also resort to Mr. Swartz. You have actually been extremely patient, the 3 of you. I value that significantly. Usually, we would certainly have had 2 panels, but we didn't recognize how the Senate would certainly be operating today, so in an effort to see to it we obtained through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you explain in your testimony and your statements that the treaty with Bermuda likewise punctures financial institution secrecy and offers a device for us getting the information we require. There have been some common legal help treaties which contain arrangements associated straight to sharing financial institution documents or various other economic information.

Swartz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When it come to that specific issue, the board might be referring to the relatively new provision that appears, for example, in our E.U.-U.S. Mutual Legal Help Treaty, the identification of bank records stipulation. That was an arrangement that was composed as well as taken on in the context of the E.U.

Under that stipulation, it's feasible for the asking for event to inquire as to whether an account exists in the asked for nation, or in the situation of the E.U., among the requested participant states. Afterwards, the request, if there is a recognition of an account, have to be adhered to up through a typical shared legal aid treaty.

As well as when it come to Bermuda, our record of participation has actually been great. We believe that the document we have on the manufacturing of records, including bank records, is such that we are positive that the stipulations consisted of in this common lawful support treaty, which do require teamwork on the manufacturing of documents, will be adequate to ensure that we get the records we require for our financial investigations and various other investigations.

A few other MLATs additionally permit for immediate, non-written type demands to be made. It's my understanding that in Bermuda, it needs to be in written form. Any factor why that provision was not consisted of in this arrangement? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, while it holds true that the Mutual Legal Aid Treaty does need demands in written kind, it was the judgment of the arbitrators that it was sufficient that, in this instance, with regard to Bermuda, we would be able to acquire quick reactions to our demands as well as additionally offer such feedbacks to Bermuda's demands, especially due to the fact that we have a practice currently established that will certainly continue, our team believe, under the treaty of having the ability to share those demands with e-mail or with fax.

Legislator Cardin. So was this, primarily, a choice made by UNITED STATE mediators, that it was not needed, understanding how we can rapidly obtain faxes as well as e-mails sent out? Is that reasonable sufficient to say, or otherwise? Mr. Johnson. Legislator, if I can aid on that one? Legislator Cardin. Certain. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda withstood that because they intended to ensure that the requests were clear and also in an extra formal method. In the settlements, it also became clear that they approved that such request could be made by fax or by email. The genuine problem they were concerned regarding was not discovering a quick ways to make a request, however actually just taking oral demands off the table.

We're positive that we've obtained the methods in place that we can make urgent demands of them in a means that will certainly be efficient. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I may add, actually, while it is an advantage to be able to make dental requests, in practice, it's very uncommon that we do so.

Senator Cardin. My primary concern is just, in urgent matters, that it's not postponed. As well as with modern-day interaction, it seems to me that can possibly be taken care of. I'm much more concerned regarding bank records. Mr. Johnson, do have any type of talk about the financial institution documents issue? Mr. Johnson. Once again, not specifically on the bank issue.

The distinction between having the ability to do an oral demand or being able to make use of one of these various other very fast ways, we assume, is not substantial. Senator Cardin. There have actually been some concerns raised concerning the competence of Bermuda law with respect to loss of proceeds and instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we are. Certainly, the growth of forfeiture regulation is a vital and dynamic matter. We've seen a variety of changes throughout the years, consisting of here in the United States. But the Mutual Legal Aid Treaty in Write-up 17 does obligate Bermuda to supply support to the United States in process associating to forfeiture of profits and also instrumentalities of crime, to the degree permitted by the regulation of Bermuda.

We've had 2 instances of successful ask for restriction and loss of assets. Both circumstances were a success and also we were able to get the funds. As a basic issue, help is offered under the laws of Bermuda, and I do believe that is very important to tension, when it come to freezing, taking, and limiting possessions, consisting of for matters connecting to terrorism as well as terrorism funding.

It needs to be noted that forfeit support is not restricted to what is allowed under Bermuda's domestic regulation. With regard to an U.S. order, Bermuda can not forfeit a specific agency of nondrug offenses, because that power doesn't exist domestically. But once again, that's restricted to agencies in nondrug violation cases.

Senator Cardin. Thank you. Allow me simply ask the general concern, as well as any among you can react to it. In the Bermuda contract, there's a stipulation that is not unknown to us, where Bermuda can deny cooperation in funding cases. We recognize, I comprehend that, so I'm not being important of that provision being consisted of therein.

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Are we hindered as an outcome of that or exists a way in which we are able to work together under this treaty, also in those instances? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, our company believe as well as we hope we still would certainly be able to work together. Bermuda indicated, and also has actually recommended the United States, that it schedules the right to reject assistance in funding instances where the sentence consists of a possible execution, relying upon the-- in contrast to the essential public law stipulation of Post 3 of the convention.

As a matter of fact, we have that experience with other countries that have actually put similar analyses on the common lawful help duties, and we've been able to exercise setups in a variety of situations that allow us to get proof or review whether the proof is significant sufficient to move forward with some type of further actions being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I could just include in that, one of the reasons this treaty took as long it did to negotiate as well as end is because it was very important to us to ensure that there wasn't an express constraint on aid in capital instances in the treaty itself.

Swartz associated to you. As well as that method we assume that assists keep the principle that is necessary to us, that such collaboration needs to be offered, irrespective of the kind of situation. And we believe this has actually additionally substantiated with some various other countries, where despite having similar problems regarding participation in funding instances, they have, for instance, had the ability to supply assistance to the nonpenalty stage of a test or one more party investigation.

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They do hold the right under this treaty to reject teamwork where the United States criminal justice system is seeking resources penalty? Legislator, they hold the right under the treaty to not supply support in situations that are contrary to public policy or their important passions, as well as they have informed us that they translate that to allow them, in death penalty situations, to exercise that.

Legislator Cardin. I understand that. I simply intended to make it clear that they would not be an offense of the treaty. We comprehend their analysis, that if there was a case pending below that we required their assistance, where, plainly, the prosecutors were seeking the death charge, Bermuda could make a decision not to coordinate under this treaty (foreign tax credit).

Swartz. If I might claim, Mr. Chairman, notably, the treaty would certainly call for, given that this would certainly be a denial under Article 3 of the treaty, that first there needed to be consultations with the United States, before that rejection can move forward. As well as I assume that's a vital element of the settlement that Mr.

As opposed to having an explicit arrangement, this is one of a set of conditions under which support might be rejected after appointment, as well as, to name a few points, that there should be consideration regarding whether assistance can be provided, based on such conditions as the requested nation regards essential. As well as our experience because regard has actually been that we sometimes can discover appropriate assurances to permit proof to be generated, at the very least for initial analysis of the relevance of proof in the case generally.

As well as I think that would be practical for us to have that details in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thank you. foreign tax credit. We would certainly be thankful to provide that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient job right here, given that this agreement was previously approved by this board. As I claimed in my opening, we approved it as well late in the 111th Congress for activity.

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Have there been any kind of considerable adjustments in our investment connection with Rwanda given that last November when you provided statement on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen considering that last November is an increase in United States investment in Rwanda, as well as I can offer you a couple of examples.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a significant hotel in Kigali. As well as, also, Marriott Hotels is entering to help with the country's expanding friendliness sector. I would state that, provided this pattern of increased investment, that it is vital that the defenses be afforded for them.

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financiers. Senator Cardin. I thank you for that (foreign tax credit). You additionally stated the fact that the United States is checking out various other reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you stated one other nation. I assume we have five existing bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply show to us other nations that the United States has revealed rate of interest in bargaining treaties? Ms.

Senator Cardin. Thank you. I have actually been told by the team that I should ask the inquiry of whether the management still supports the Us senate approval of the Rwanda treaty, since it was held over from the last Congress. For the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Senator Cardin.



I think that completes the questioning. I do appreciate your persistence with the board and also thank you really a lot for your testimony today.

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Response. As laid out listed below, we want to offer updated information on reported U.S. investment activity in Rwanda. Aside from these updates, the solutions given by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress continue to be precise. In 2009, the supply of U.S. foreign direct investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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And also I believe that would certainly be useful for us to have that info in this committee. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest job here, since this contract was previously approved by this committee. As I claimed in my opening, we authorized it as well late in the 111th Congress for activity.

Have there been any type of considerable modifications in our financial investment partnership with Rwanda considering that last November when you gave testimony on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen given that last November is a rise in United States investment in Rwanda, and I can offer you a few examples.

Additionally, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major hotel in Kigali. And, likewise, Marriott Hotels is going in to help with the country's growing hospitality sector. So I would certainly say that, provided this pattern of enhanced investment, that it is very important that the securities be managed for them.

You additionally discussed the fact that the United States is discovering other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I think we have five present bilateral investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply share with us various other nations that the United States has revealed interest in negotiating treaties?

I think that completes the examining. I do value your persistence with the board and also thank you extremely much for your statement today.

Answer. As laid out listed below, we wish to provide updated info on reported UNITED STATE investment task in Rwanda. Other than these updates, the answers provided by the Department's witness in the 111th Congress remain accurate. In 2009, the supply of U.S. foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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